March 29, 2018, i-media visited and interviewed Mr. Hamberto Valles, GM. Of ICC (China) in Foshan, China. Herein is the notes taken for the dialogue between Ken Huo ( the host of i-media ) and the guest  on globalization, free trade and the updates.

2018年3月29日， i媒体团队访问并且采访了ICC总经理，汉贝托先生（Mr. Hamberto Valles）。以下是对话记录，采访人霍健明（KEN HUO）和受访人谈到了全球化、自由贸易以及当前的一些最新热点。

(根据对话双方的英文原文翻译，感谢ICC同仁海波，COCO!)

KEN: So,Humberto, on the topic of globalization, right now, it looks like the trade warare looming not just in China or in the Pacific Ocean, but it looks like aroundthe world. What’s you idea about  globalization, are you up to optimistic orpessimistic?

Humberto: Ithink I’m optimistic about globalization, maybe, in the case, Mr. Trump hasbeen a very special president. In his mind, the USA has been treated unfairly .And to be more specific , with Mexico, which is a huge trading partner andChina, recently they imposed a big tax to certain items, make trigger a trade war.Unfortunately nobody wins in this war, there’s not a winner, there’s not aloser . In our specific case, we are a true perfect example of globalization.The simple description of globalization  is the increase of interaction betweendifferent countries and cultures, by flow of money, or ideas, or technology. Sowhen we came to China, in what we’re doing here, has worked well for all of ourcountries, has worked very well for the U.S, has worked very well for Mexico,and excellent for China. And there’s not a winner, there’s not a loser, we allwon in all countries. (Yep)

我想对于全球化我是乐观的，也许，在特伦普先生这个事情上，他是一位非常特殊的总统，，我想在他的想法中，美国遭到了一些不公正的对待，更具体一些就是，对于墨西哥和中国这两个巨大的贸易伙伴，最近他在一些商品上征收了很高的税，引发了贸易战，很不幸的是，在这场战争中，没有赢家。那我们自己做例子，我们是全球化的真正的完美榜样。对于全球化的简单描述就是，通过资金，理念以及技术的流动，而产生的不同国家和文化之间的互动的增加。所以当我们来到中国的时候，我们在这里所做的，在我们所有的国家都奏效，，对于美国很管用，在墨西哥也很管用，对中国也是如此，而且没有赢家输家之分，我们所有国家都赢了。

And I believe that that is the way itshould be, the knowledge, the wisdom, the products, the ideas, flows in alldirections in the right way. (Yep)

而且我相信这就是本应该的方式，知识，智慧，产品，理念通过正确的方式流动到四面八方。

We started first by manufacturing in China,and moving those goods to USA and Mexico, and later we decided to bring all thetechnology and wisdom, and ideas, and creativity from these two countries toChina, to sell here, and has worked very well for us. That’s why we grew fromnothing to what we are now in very short period of time.

我们最开始是从中国生产，然后将货物输送到美国和墨西哥，然后我们决定将所有的技术和智慧，以及理念和创意从这两个国家带到中国，在这里销售，而这对我们非常奏效。这也是为什么我们在非常短的时间内从籍籍无名成长成现在所处的位置。

Having well over a hundred of showrooms inChina, and we have showrooms in all the countries in Bangladesh, in Israel , inThailand, in Indonesia, in Korea, and many people interested in opening  the ICC concept. I believe in globalization.

在中国拥有了100多个店面，而且我们在其它国家也有店面，在孟加拉，在以色列，在泰国，在印度尼西亚，在韩国，而且很多人都对开设ICC 概念店面很感兴趣。我相信全球化。

KEN: So inshort, in this globalization out of your experience, that China is not the onlywinner, USA, Mexico are also the winners, they gain a lot from thisglobalization, and also as you mentioned just now, a lot of Asian countries orother countries out of Asia, are gaining from this globalization.

所以，简而言之，在你的全球化经历里，中国不是唯一的赢家，美国，墨西哥同样是赢家，他们从这个全球化中获益了，而且同样如你刚刚提到的一样，很多亚洲国家或者其它一些非亚洲国家，也从全球化中获益了。

Humberto:Yes, yes, I think in our case, we all won. Recently, if we pay attention to thehistory, Mexico imposed anti dumping Case with China ceramics, so not to thecountry tile that is less than 6.7  (USD/SQM) something, that not getting toMexico , but it doesn’t make sense to me, now Mexico is importing these tilefrom India,  at the same price, so itjust doesn’t make sense. We move a product,  the soluble salt product the 4 dollars, 4.20,4.50, that China was expert of manufacturing these tiles, now we buy it fromIndia at the similar price, but the quality is lower, so it just doesn’t  make sense.

是的，是的，我认为在我们这个例子上，我们都赢了。最近，如果我们关注历史的话，，墨西哥对中国瓷砖发起了反倾销，所以中国的瓷砖低于6.7美金什么的就不能出口到墨西哥了，但这在我看来是说不通的，，现在墨西哥以同样的价格从印度进口这些瓷砖，所以这是说不通的。我们以4美金，或者4.2，4.5 美金的价格从中国购买渗花类的产品，中国是生产这类产品的专家，现在我们却要从印度以类似的价格购买它们，但是质量更低，这根本就说不通。

KEN: Can Iuse these cases as examples, can I say there are 2 obvious losers, one, theproducers of quality products of soluble tiles in China, Second, the consumers,the clients in Mexico. Is that correct?

我是否可以用这个做个例子，我可以说这里有两个明显的输家吗,第一个是在中国生产高质量的渗花砖产品的生产者，第二个就是消费者，墨西哥的消费者，是这样吗？

Humberto:Absolutely,absolutely, both countries lost,

绝对的，绝对的，两个国家都输了。

KEN: EXCUSEme ,they use the same price ,the clients in Mexico use the same price, but theyget lower quality

打搅一下，他们使用同样的价格,墨西哥的消费者使用同样的价格，但是得到的却是更低的质量。

HUMBERTO:Lower quality ! So , in this particular case, both countries lost, you know,and but it goes further down, it’s about politics, it’s about competition, it’sabout jealousy. And Not necessarily two country that going over a seriousmatter , there were so much politics behind these things and competition and soon . Now in the USA ,I can somehow understand that  in the case these goods have been recentlytaxed, the people are not dumb. Both countries were somehow winners, but whenpolitics in a very strong minded new president trying to make somethingdifferent and unique,in the case of MR.Trump wants to ,even by the advise ofmany of his close allies from the same political group saying “ don’t do itbecause we are gonna lose”, we are gonna lose and ,we will see what will happeni hope nothing bad but .

更低的质量，所以，在这个特定的例子里，两个国家都输了，但是往深一点看，这是关于政治，关于竞争，关于嫉妒。而且并不是两个国家有什么大的过结，这后面有太多的政治和竞争性等东西了。在美国，就那些最近被征税的商品，我大致理解，我的意思是人们都不傻，我认为两个国家之前都是赢家。但是当一个非常固执的新总统想要做出一些差异化的与众不同的事情的时候，这里是说特伦普先生，甚至他同一政党里面的一些同僚都说，别这么做，因为我们会输，我们会输。我们会看到会发生什么，我希望不会发生什么坏事

KEN:We canonly hope for the best but we still have to prepare for the worst , thispresident is more and more surrounded by more and more hawkish persons.

我们只能够抱着最好的希望，但是我们还是得做最坏的准备，这个总统现在被越来越多的鹰派包围了。

HUMBERTO:Itwill be interesting to see I guess many people is like  “OK let’s see what happens “ because I don’tthink that nothing good is gonna come out of this ,hopefully they will sooncome to an agreement ,we will see . In his mind he thinks that USA was somehowtreated a little bit unfairly, in their case it happens sometimes when you don’tplay the game fairly, and someone is acting out of the law or unfairly, usuallysomebody gets hurt, and this a little bit happens with MEXICO,  and this anti dumping case with soluble salts (tiles) . Many people moving tile doing weird thing with the invoicing , invoicingtile at 2 USD  ( per SQM) when the realprice was  4 . just pay less taxes, andthen we are the largest importer of ceramic tile and we were doing everythingby the book, clean and legal . It was sad because I started this business, and it was sad ,that suddenly we stopmoving this couple of hundreds of containers of this products to Mexico, wentto nothing ,and we have to move that to India , good for India, bad for China .And our customers unfortunately get a product that is lower quality, it looksmaybe the same ,but China definitely still have the better quality on thisproduct.

我猜很多人都是抱着“好吧让我们看看会发生些什么”的心态，我不认为会有什么好事发生，希望他们能够尽快达成一致，，我们会看到，在他的理念里，他认为美国受到了一些不公的待遇，在他们这个例子上是这样的，当你不按照游戏规则办事，而有些人也跳出规则不公正的行事的时候，有人是会受到伤害的，而墨西哥以及和渗花产品相关的反倾销案就是这样。我的意思是很多人都通过发票作假这样的奇怪的方式在采购，把实际价格为4美金的瓷砖开成2美金，这样可以少交税。而我们作为最大的瓷砖进口商，做每件事情都是合法合规的。这令人伤心，的，在我手里开始了这个业务，然后突然之间我们停止从中国运输这好几百个货柜去墨西哥，然后我们必须去印度采购，这对印度是好的，对中国就不好了，而很遗憾的是，我们的客户拿到的是更低质量的产品，可能看上去差不多，但是中国绝对在这类产品上有着更好的质量。

KEN:So , let’sput it like this ,get rid of the so called zero-sum game mentality, we stillbelieve that globalization is the best solution for the better welfare for thepeople in different countries.

所以，让我们这么说吧，抛开零和博弈这种游戏思维，我们仍然相信全球化是给到不同国家的人更好的福利的最佳解决方案.

HUMBERTO: Ofcourse ,in all the countries. If it’s done fairly ,it’s a good thing,  has worked very well for us, we are a perfectexample, actually , I wrote a little bit about this on the newspaper, yesterday, today is Friday, it’s a hot topic rightnow.

当然了，在所有的国家。如果操作公平的话，是一件好事，对我们就很好，我们就是一个完美的例子，事实上我昨天还在报纸上写了一些有关这个话题的，这是现在一个大热的话题

KEN:It’s abig topic,so let’s see what could happen and what is the best outcome we canachieve out of this difficult time.

Humberto, thank you for your time and yourvery insightful ideas. Thank you!

这是一个大的话题，所以让我们看看将会发生些什么，什么是我们可以在这个困难时期取得的最佳结果。Humberto,谢谢你的时间和你的深刻见解，谢谢你！

HUMBERTO: wewill wait and see ,Xiexie!

让我们拭目以待，谢谢！